In light of the recent events involving the killing of Osama Bin Ladin, I thought it was important to take a sober look at the situation from the perspective of God's Word. Many Americans and others have expressed great joy and actually celebrated the death of O.B.L.. My first response was my personal memory of people in the Middle East celebrating in the streets when the events of September 11th, 2001 happened. I was disgusted with anger then. Today I am disgusted with sadness.
I am saddened by this response Americans have had primarily because God said in Ezekial 33 that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Secondly I am saddened at the spiritual blindness of our nation. Jesus said if we hate someone we are as guilty as a murderer. Most people who reject the Bible reject this statement and defend themselves by saying they would never do what O.B.L. did. I would add that God also said "If not for His grace, we would do the same evil."
Think about it. Lets say you were born in O.B.L.'s family, environement and nation. Already the chances of you becoming a hate filled terrorist has increased signifigantly. Now lets say you also were indoctrinated with the same garbage he was, and you had the same temperment. It is likely you would follow the teachings of Muhammud and become a terrorist unless some eye opening intervention took place.
You see we all have the capacity within us to become something evil. We hide alot of our hate and evil in our thoughts, but God knows our thoughts. God placed us in this society where it is likely we will not be tempted to become terrorists. So then the question that demands to be asked is this: Is God then not just because He allows people to grow up in environments where they can be tempted to be something so evil such as the case with O.B.L.? The answer is no. I can say this because God sees sin as sin. Here in America we sin in our thoughts, in Osama Bin Ladin's world, his sin manifested into his acts. God sees both the same. Therefore we have no right to celebrate the death of a wicked man, because we too are just as wicked. The only thing that could have saved Osama Bin Ladin, would have been him responding to God's call to repentance, and then him receiving Jesus Christ as his savior. I don't know if O.B.L ever heard the gospel, but as far as I can tell, I saw no repentance of his sins. True repentance, would have led him to the cross of Christ. God gave O.B.L. a conscience, so he knew what he was doing was evil. However he hardened his heart to God's love and then was blinded to the truth about Islam. That truth is that it is a religion created by Satan himself.
Most Americans have also hardened their hearts to God and need to repent. For those who claim they are not as evil as O.B.L. and yet live their lives rejecting God's call to repentance; they will end up in the same environment Osama Bin Ladin may have ended up in...The Lake of Fire.
I am sure this may have offended you, but the reality is that we are all dead in our sin, and can only be saved through what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. We cannot be saved by being religous, and we cannot be saved by just trying to be "Good People." By God's standards, we are incapable of being "Good People." Therefore we need the grace and mercy of God that is given to us through Jesus.
Hey Tim, I think you need to define what "good" and "evil" are. I realize that you will adhere to what you feel the bible says good and evil are but when I read stories like Elijah in 2Kings where he sends bears to kill children who mock him, or in Psalms where god delights in "dashing children on the rocks" I simply have to wonder a) is that "good" because it came from god or b) something you ignore because it conflicts with your idea of god, or c) something else entirely.
ReplyDeleteThat was a long sentence. Sorry about that. But I'd love to know what you think.
I am glad OBL is dead. It won't change a thing. But there you go. Coffee soon? My classes are over after this week so I will have more time.
Bob, thanks for your comments/questions. They are questions I have had also. I would define good as anything in harmony with God's will. Evil would be anything against His will. Where it gets confusing is in the realm of God's judgement and justice. 2nd Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any would perish but that all would repent. Yet at some point God draws a line and says if you cross it then His mercy will cease and His judgement begins. He wants all to be saved but He will not compramise His Righteousness and justice to achieve this.
ReplyDeleteLooking at yout first example regarding the bears mauling these young ones for calling Elisha a name. We need to understand these were not 42 children, but were young men between the ages of 12 and 30. We also need to recognize that these juvenile delinquents were a physical threat to the prophet. On top of that they mocked the annointed prophet of God and should have known better. The term bald head means little to us, but in that culture they were calling him a detestable outcast like a leper. So much so that they may have attacked him. God brought down his judgement on them. We dont know if all or any died, and we certainly dont know if they would be condemned to Hell. So we cant judge what God did here because we dont have all the facts.
As for Psalm 137:9 we are reading the prayer of a psalmist who experienced Babylon do horrible things against his children of Israel. So it is simply a prayer for vengence. There are many accounts of people in the Bible asking God to give them revenge. Jesus rebuked His disciples for something similar. As we have discussed God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked or in the death of babies being dashed against rocks. Although He may allow it to happen for His purposes. For example if He did allow babies to be put to death (which he does today through abortion), He may actually be allowing this to happen to have mercy on the babies. What do I mean? Say these Babylonian children were allowed to grow up in a Babylonian pagan society. God would see all the suffering they would have to go through in that society and may even rebel against God. By scripture we can say that all children are covered by the cross, so all children who die before the age of accountablilty go to heaven. Therefore by God allowing children die, He is actually having mercy on them in the realm of eternity. This does not mean abortion is God's will. It means that He takes what we intend for evil and uses it for good.
In both cases we cant judge God because we dont have the facts. We do know that God loved the world so much that He would come and die for our sins. In light of this these other scriptures we dont quite understand end up becoming much clearer once we understand that God is sovereign over all things except our free will.
Sorry, it was Elisha and not Elija. I stand corrected. However, I still don't see how sicking bears on people is good.
ReplyDeleteI also don't see, whether in vengeance or not, that killing babies is good. Not at all. The fact that you twist and apologize your way around it all is, honestly, disturbing. If you believe god told you to kill a baby, would you? If you answer yes then I am convinced I am a better person than what you believe "good" is.
Bob you are contradicting yourself a little here. You thought it was good when Osama got a bullet in his head, but these individuals mauled by bears is not good. If you knew for a fact that they were going to kill the prophet would it be any better for you? You also need to understand the purpose of the stricpt law God gave Israel in the Old Testament. These young men violated that law and got what the law demanded.
ReplyDeleteAs for killing babies, are you pro abortion? Anyway God never commanded anyone to commit murder. The only time people were commanded to kill was in a state of war for Israel against a nation that was attacking or planning on attacking Israel. So your question is invalid because God would never ask me to violate His own law by murdering someone. Murder and killing in a war are absolutelt different. If it was not then all our troops should be thrown in jail for life. Obviously that is absurd.
I am not apologizing or twisting anything. I am looking at the scenerio reasonably. I am also considering the nature of God as revealed throughout scripture. He is just and true throughout. So in this situation we have no reason to think any differently. You are actually doing the very thing you accuse me of by judging God and me through this account. The only reason people use stuff like this to attack scripture is because they have already decided it cannot be Gods word, so they use things like this to justify their beliefs. I did the same thing.
Grrr, I wrote a huge reply and it flushed it when I wanted to subit it.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, let's get together and talk about this. It will be at the very least interesting.
The only bad day between now and next weekend is Wednesday since I have two exams then.
Somehow my comment got deleted, so I will re-post. Good is defined as anything in harmony with God's will. Evil is anything against God's will.
ReplyDeleteThe account in 2Kings dealing with Elisha the prophet was a situation where we only have some of the facts. It is implied in the context of Elisha's situation that these 42 young men (not children) were a physical threat to Elisha, and God used the Bears to stop them from doing him harm. Not to mention these young ones mocked God's annointed prophet and therefore got what the Jewish law required.
The account in Psalm 137 is a prayer for revenge because Babylon had done the same thing to the children of Israel. Whether God answered that prayer or not we don't know. We do know that God has allowed children to be put to death throughout history. Even today millions are killed in the act of abortion. This is not God's will, but because of the cross these children gain access to heaven.